[Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon Dialogue

[HoD qunnoQ]

since the last noun in the grouping is the thing being described,then maybe
i should say

*Human qam HaqwI' SoH --> (human,you are a foot surgeon) *(the comma
implied)

or,if there are commas in Klingon (are there ?) i could write



*Human,qam HaqwI' SoH --> (human,you are a foot surgeon)*
or if there are no commas in Klingon (please someone tell me if there are)
i could again say

*Human qam HaqwI' SoH  *and right after i speak the word {Human} pause
briefly,then continuing to speak the rest of the phrase.

in the case all of the above are wrong,the only thing i could think of,is :


*Human SoH qam HaqwI'*


>> I will also send you a Klingon story confined to simpler grammatical
structures and basic vocabulary

thank you very much !

qunnoQ

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:

> > does this mean that nouns are always (whenever they are stringed
> together) grouped in pairs ? i.e. the first two, then the next two etc ?
>
> ghobe’.  No it doesn’t.
>
> Here are some groupings from canon sentences
>
> tlhIngan wo' Degh --> (Klingon Empire) symbol
>
>
> *tlhI­ngan qor­Du’ pong --> a Klingon’s (family name)HoS Hal qeng­wI’ naQ
> --> ((power source) carrier) stick)tlhI­ngan yo’ Suv­wI’ --> (Klingon
> fleet) warrior*
>
> Please have another look at that e-mail with all the parentheses, and see
> I described that the nouns might be grouped in any way. You must use your
> knowledge of the world to decide which grouping is sensible for the
> sentence.  I’m describing the language in little bits at a time for you, so
> each is something you can learn, and after each e-mail you have a little
> more that you can add to the conversation, but the messages lojmIt tI’wI’
> nuv is sending regarding thinking about the language are no less
> important.  It’s not a little code. It’s a language that means something
> and neither boQwI’ nor Bing will ever bring what you already have in your
> head to understanding it.
>
>
>
> >> tlhIngan qam ‘oH = it is a foot of a Klingon, or it is a Klingon's foot
> >> qam Hom ‘oH = it is a bone of the foot,or it is the foot's bone
> >> baS qam ‘oH = it is a metallic foot
> >> tlhIngan baS qam ‘oH = it is a foot of a metallic Klingon (this sounds
> a little weird), or it is a Klingon metallic foot.
>
> lugh! (right!) so unless someone were already talking about a Klingon
> Terminator or the like, you would probably lean towards its being a
> metallic Klingon foot.  Maybe a prosthetic?
>
> > You are a human foot surgeon = qam HaqwI Human SoH
>
> Hmm.  The last noun in any grouping is the one that is the thing, with the
> others being ones that describe it or each other.  So you’re calling this
> person some sort of human. Either they are a (qam HaqwI’) Human – a
> foot-surgeon Human—or they are a qam (HaqwI’ Human)---a foot’s
> surgeon-Human.  I guess the person is a member of a group of humans who
> have been captured and made into slaves or some kind of exhibition, each
> individual designated by his or her role. The foot-surgeon Human makes
> sense there.  I can’t even make up a story to make sense of a foot’s
> surgeon-Human.  So try that one again.
>
> Noun-noun constructions are, for some reason, often challenging for
> beginners.  I think it may be because basic Klingon sentence order hasn’t
> solidified in their brains yet, so they are still imposing the order of
> their native language.  Or they start to think of the modifying nouns as
> adjectives, and then ... but why would I need to tell you how to get
> confused when you can find your way there without trouble?
>
> > lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh what is {vIrI'} ? i can't find its meaning..
>
> > And yes,you are right ; in order for someone to learn any kind of
> language (real or constructed) he has to learn to think in that
> language,and not just try to replace words from his
> > native language to the one he's trying to learn. That is why i have
> bought every Klingon book i managed to find,hoping that as soon as i learn
> the basics,i will start reading -even at a > very slow pace- in Klingon
> so as to get the <<feel>> of the Klingon.
>
> Ah good. You are taking his words to heart. I will also send you a Klingon
> story confined to simpler grammatical structures and basic vocabulary.
>
> - Qov
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 2:14 AM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <
> lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just to supplement Qov’s excellent answers and lessons here, I just want
> to open your mind to principles that are mentioned in The Klingon
> Dictionary, but tend to be glossed over by new people learning the language.
>
>
>
> Klingon is a language, not a code. Implied in this, you need to realize
> that replacing English words with Klingon words and changing the word order
> is not always going to translate an English sentence into a Klingon
> sentence very well. Sometimes, you have to pay less attention to the words
> in an English sentence and pay more attention to its meaning.
>
>
>
> In particular, I’m going to make the sentence I’m now writing somewhat of
> an example of how a person speaking English can easily pack a lot more than
> that “single thought” they taught you about in high school, which is
> supposed to be the official boundary of what constitutes a sentence into a
> sentence, but in fact, English, though its extensive use of “helper words”,
> can pack quite a bit more than a single thought into a sentence and just
> keep on going, sucking in new ideas that have nothing to do with the
> original “single thought” that a sentence was supposed to have contained,
> much like the term “cottage cheese”, which I once dreamed quite believably
> within the boundaries of the dream to be the secret of the Universe — the
> answer to all questions — even though it has absolutely nothing to do with
> the sentence I started writing to illustrate one of the differences between
> Klingon grammar and English grammar.
>
>
>
> My point is, that English can pack much more into a sentence than any
> self-respecting Klingon speaker would ever want to TRY to pack into one
> Klingon sentence.
>
>
>
> So, if you want to say, “I am a human foot surgeon,” there is no reason to
> not break that down into two Klingon sentences. {HaqwI’ jIH. Human jIH.}
>
>
>
> Or, if you wanted to make that other statement: HaqwI’ jIH. Human qamDu’
> vIrI’.
>
>
>
> It makes for very clear expression of meaning, and avoids the artificial
> challenge of packing three nouns together, leaving the listener to figure
> out from context what the relationship is among them. Don’t expect to hold
> a Klingon’s attention by packing more than one thought into a sentence. He
> might hurt you. Don’t tease a gorilla, and don’t speak long, complex
> sentences to a Klingon.
>
>
>
> In TKD, Okrand also points out that in Klingon, it is much more common
> than in English to repeat the same noun in a sentence, where in English we
> tend to replace all but the first mention with pronouns. The point here is
> that Klingon sentences tend to be short enough that you aren’t padding them
> all that much to repeat a noun now and then, and it gives you the
> opportunity to be extremely clear about exactly whom or what you are
> talking about.
>
>
>
> Since Klingons are often discussing things like whom to kill or what to
> destroy, clarity has a lot of cultural value. Learn to speak Klingon
> clearly.
>
>
>
> lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
>
> Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:46 AM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> thanks for the corrections ! yes indeed i tried to say that Qov is a space
> ship,but i got the word order wrong ; but now i understand how i should
> have written it.
>
> moving on to your new question,as i understand it,it asks "am i a paper
> book ?" but yet another question arises..  the 'a' is an interrogative ;
> why place a question mark at the end ? isn't that unnecessary ?
>
> and to try to answer to the question : ghobe'. qam HaqwI' SoH.
>
> but if wanted to write "no,you are a human foot surgeon" how would i write
> it ? "ghobe'. qam HaqwI' Human SoH " ?
>
> qunnoQ
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 3:42 PM, David Holt <kenjutsuka at live.com> wrote:
>
> >> HaqwI' JIH je. qam HaqwI' jIH. ro HaqwI' SoH'a'?
> >
> > with the help of the boQwI app i think that this means : "i'm a surgeon
> > too. a foot surgeon. are you a trunk/body surgeon ?"
>
> maj!
>
> > i would like to give the reply "no,i'm an orthopaedic surgeon". So
> > maybe i would say : "Qo'. ghIv HaqwI' jiH."
>
> Check what boQwI' says about {Qo'} as an exclamation.  It cannot be used
> to answer a "yes" or "no" question.  It is used when somebody tells you to
> do something and you refuse.  Now look up {ghobe'}.  The sentence which
> follows that was very well done.  majQa'!
>
> > @ Qov (robyn) : Duj logh SoH !
>
> Perfect use of {SoH}!  Though I think the other words may have gotten a
> little mixed up.
>
> When you put two nouns together (like {ghIv HaqwI'} and {Duj logh}), the
> second noun is the thing being described and the first noun modifies it in
> some way.  A common relationship between the two is that the first noun is
> owner of the second noun.  But it may also be that the second noun is made
> out of the first noun.  Or that second noun is the type used by the first
> noun.  Other more complicated relationships are possible, but the point
> it's a first-noun kind of second-noun.  By the way, this is exactly how we
> do it in English, too and when you are putting two nouns together you can
> often (but not always) just put the English and Klingon in the same order
> (for possession we add 's in English, but nothing in Klingon).  In those
> cases where that is not clear, it helps to reverse the order of the words
> and insert "of".
>
> {janSIy SID} is "Johnshee's patient" (ownership).  {baS Haqtaj} is a
> "steel scalpel" (made of).  {tlhIngan Duj} is a "Klingon ship" (used by).
>  {yIn Quj} is the "game of life" (more complicated relationship).
>
> So I am a "foot kind of surgeon", a "foot surgeon", or a "surgeon of the
> foot".  You are a "limb kind of surgeon", a "limb surgeon", or a "surgeon
> of the limbs".  And you've described Qov as a "ship kind of outer space", a
> "ship outer space", or an "outer space of a ship".  You might have instead
> meant {Duj} to mean "instinct", but I'm proceeding under the assumption
> that you meant to call Qov a "space ship".  If that's the case, then you're
> saying she's a kind of ship and the kind of ship is a space kind.  The
> descriptor goes first followed by the thing being described.  So {logh Duj}
> is "space ship".
>
> nav paq jIH'a'?
>
>
> janSIy
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