[Tlhingan-hol] rup

[Will Martin]

When Okrand tells us that Klingon gender is determined by the ability to use language, I don’t think this is code words for “has a soul”. I take him at his word. As a class of nouns, is this an example of a being capable of using language? If someone speaks of {targhpu’wIj}, I probably would not be able to stop myself from responding, {toH, pIj boja'chuq’a' targhmeylIj SoH je? boja’chuqtaHvIS nuq bop jatlhtaHghachraj?}

Data is an interesting example. I think that anyone who spent time with him would recognize what most people recognize about him. He’s not just an anthropomorphic device. He has achieved a status, particularly in terms of use of language, that crosses a threshold beyond that of the class of nouns we refer to as computers.

For most computers, language is an interface to a command set and replies to those commands. Data asks questions without being prompted to do so. Data discusses things. He initiates conversations. Even the Enterprise computer does not process language on the same level that Data does. I’d use {ghaH} and not {‘oH} for Data. I’d use {‘oH} and not {ghaH} for the Enterprise computer.

Telepathic aliens are another interesting case. If they were as the telepaths Star Trek has always shown us, they have been able to speak AND communicate via telepathy. If they communicated with telepathy, but could not read, write, speak, or hear communicative sounds, then I’m not sure what a Klingon would think about their gender.

Most warlike cultures kill anything they don’t understand, so they’d probably kill the aliens before they had to talk about them much, but that hardly answers your question.

I simply don’t know.

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv



> On Nov 12, 2015, at 10:12 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Which class does Data belong too?
> 
> ok,this is *the* question ! I don't see a way,one could objectively decide. It depends on the individual person's views about who is human,and who isn't. My personal choice in sorting this out,would be as follows :
> 
> - if someone has a soul then use {-pu'}
> - if something doesn't have a soul then use {-mey}
> 
> ..of course this is just my personal opinion,as an orthodox christian who believes in life after death,the human soul etc etc. If we excluded the religious criteria though,then yes I believe that the way to go is who can speak,and who can't.
> 
> Think of this though.. Can a dog speak ? One would say no.. (I would say no too). But when your dog barks to alert you that something is wrong,then who can really say,that it isn't actually "speaking" ? But then you will ask me "why don't you accept that dogs have a soul too ?"
> Anyway,this gets way too complicated and would be a very nice topic to discuss in a mailing list concerning religion/spirituality etc..
> 
> What is though a nice topic of discussion in this list is the following :
> 
> A Klingon vessel encounters aliens who DON'T speak. They DON'T use words. They telepathically feel each others wishes/intentions etc. Or they use colors to communicate. What would Klingons use ? {-pu'} or {-mey} ?
> 
> ..for what is worth (if i understand how this phrase is to be used in english) I always considered Data a machine. However I was pissed and sad,to see that eventually it was destroyed.
> 
> cpt qunnoQ
> 
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:36 PM, David Holt <kenjutsuka at live.com <mailto:kenjutsuka at live.com>> wrote:
> ghItlh Quvar:
> 
> > English people even refer to their pets as he or she, but only if they
> > have personal contact. In German, the animal's gender is always used
> > correctly, not matter how personal the contact is.
> 
> Hoch Ha'DIbaH 'uSDu' jojDaq 'oHtaHbogh 'ay''e' DatobnIS 'e' qay'be''a'?
> 
> janSIy
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