[Tlhingan-hol] New word from MO: {jIr} (excl) "Big deal!"

[De'vID]

On 4 November 2015 at 22:49, Lieven <levinius at gmx.de> wrote:
> Okrand's words were really something like "ah, no, forget about that, don't
> write that down. you don't need to do that move. Saying jIr is enough."

I'm also trying to clarify what Marc Okrand actually retracted. Based
on both Zrajm's and your description of the events, something like
this happened:
1. Marc explained the meaning of a word and (initially) insisted that
it be accompanied by a particular gesture.
2. Later, he retracted some part of his initial description.

Zrajm reported: "he later changed his mind on this, saying that just
saying {jIr} is alright."

You reported that he said things along the lines of: "remove that
line", "ah, no, forget about that, don't write that down. you don't
need to do that move. Saying jIr is enough."

As described, the situation is still somewhat ambiguous. Of course,
you were there and I wasn't, and it may just be that it really is
clear to you what he meant, but it may not be apparent to you why it
looks ambiguous to someone whose only source of information is what's
been described in this thread so far. (Evidence: loghaD, SuStel, and I
have all interpreted the description of the events in the same or
similar way, so even if it's a misinterpretation, it's at least a
misinterpretation that arises naturally out of the description of the
event as given.)

What did Okrand actually retract? Is it that the gesture is associated
with the expression *at all*, or only his initial claim that it was
*necessary* for the expression to be accompanied by the gesture (which
is one possible way to interpret his statements, as reported)? I don't
care which it is either way, but I just want to clarify that Okrand
was clear that he was retracting the association of the gesture with
the expression in toto (as you are suggesting), and not that he had
made a possibly unclear retraction which you are interpreting one way
but which other people might interpret differently.

-- 
De'vID