[Tlhingan-hol] Hints and Tips : OVS

[lojmIt tI'wI' nuv]

The prefix trick works when the beneficiary is first or second person because the context of the conversation reveals the identity of the first and second person, so no explicit noun is necessary.  This way, if the explicit, third person direct object disagrees with the first or second person indicated by the direct object implied by the prefix, you know that the prefix trick is being used. 

So, unless you are talking to the dog, you can't use the prefix trick in your example. 

vIghro' qa'ang. 

That's the prefix trick. Literally, it means "I show you the cat." It's a trick because there's nothing in TKD that explains why you have an explicit third person direct object {vIghro'} and an implied second person direct object "you" that are not the same entity, since we never use an explicit noun to refer to the first or second person. We use only pronouns for that, in most contexts, in English or Klingon. I know that there's an exception. Apposition. But that's clearly not what is going on here. We aren't saying, "I reveal you, cat."  I mean, maybe in some odd, unusual context that's what you want, but without the pause (comma) or emphasis that typically marks apposition, most would interpret that as "I show you the cat."

If the beneficiary and direct object are both third person, the prefix can't tell you who the beneficiary is. It won't even help if the number were different because Klingon doesn't provide enough prefixes indicating a difference between singular and plural third person direct object. 

So, the trick works because of an intentional disagreement in the person of the explicit third person direct object and the prefix. If both are third person, there is no disagreement. 

Am I making sense, or am I too verbose?

Sent from my iPad
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv

> On Dec 31, 2015, at 3:08 AM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have been discussing the prefix trick with myself, and a new
> question/observation just came to mind..
> 
> I noticed from the aforementioned examples that the prefix trick
> "eliminates" the direct mentioning of a pronoun.
> 
> In the {jIHvaD taj Danob} and {taj chonob} example the {jIHvaD} is eliminated.
> In the {SoHvaD tlhIngan Hol vIghojmoH} and {tlhIngan Hol qaghojmoH}
> the {SoHvaD} is eliminated.
> 
> By saying "eliminated" meaning of course, that its meaning is
> expressed using the prefix trick.
> 
> However, take into account this sentence :
> 
> I showed the dog where the cat is.
> I showed the cat for the dog.
> Ha'DIbaHvaD vIghro' vI'angpu'.
> 
> Is there a way I could use here the prefix trick ? I suppose I could
> say vIghro' vI'angpu' (I showed it the cat), however it would not be
> specified to whom I showed the cat.
> 
> So, my observation/question is that unless there is a pronoun to be
> "eliminated" the prefix trick can't be used. Is this a correct
> observation/conclusion ?
> 
> cpt qunnoQ
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 7:32 PM, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ok, De'vID thank you ! Now I understand.
>> 
>> qunnoq
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 6:45 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 30 December 2015 at 17:14, mayql qunenoS <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> (or with the prefix trick, the indirect object)
>>>> 
>>>> I know that this isn't the actual subject of this thread, however
>>>> could you please (or anyone else) write 2-3 sentences as examples
>>>> where the prefix trick is applied  ?
>>>> I have heard many times, people mentioning it, but unfortunately
>>>> I can't understand what it is.
>>> 
>>> {jIHvaD taj Danob} = you give the knife to me, you give me the knife
>>> 
>>> The direct object is {taj} "knife", the beneficiary (or indirect
>>> object) is {jIH} "me".
>>> 
>>> This can be rewritten using the prefix trick as:
>>> taj chonob = you give me the knife
>>> 
>>> Here, the prefix is {cho-} "you-me", but the direct object is {taj}
>>> (it). The {jIHvaD} has been replaced by {cho-}.
>>> 
>>> {SoHvaD tlhIngan Hol vIghojmoH} = I teach the Klingon language to you,
>>> I teach you Klingon
>>> 
>>> The direct object is {tlhIngan Hol}, the beneficiary (or indirect
>>> object) is {SoH} "you".
>>> 
>>> This can be rewritten using the prefix trick as:
>>> {tlhIngan Hol qaghojmoH} = I teach you the Klingon language
>>> 
>>> Again, {qa-} indicates "I-you", but the direct object is {tlhIngan Hol}.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> De'vID
>>> 
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> 
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