[Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology

Tue Dec 1 07:33:18 PST 2015

The Gospel According to Mark is the largest book of The Bible to be
translated so far.
Interestingly enough, it was translated from Greek to Klingon by an atheist.

Presumably, Nick Nicholas wasn't swayed to match his translation to a
specific sect's doctrine, which IMO, gives us a better translation.

As coordinator of the RTTP (Religious Text Translation Project) I realize
that the number of bilingual Greek/Klingon atheists in the world is small.
If someone wants to use an English (or French, or German) text as their
base, I'd be okay with that.
I would not be okay with a machine translation or anything just cobbled
together; or slapdash as it was put earlier.

Beginners probably shouldn't take on any large translation project; let
them figure out how to translate their own words first.
But I see no reason to suggest they don't discuss any specific topic, if
that's what they want to discuss.

Sure, there are easier topics to tackle; but if we have the vocabulary to
tackle Mark...

~naHQun

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> As an honest atheist, the term “saint” is an alien word to me, and it’s
notable that it’s an English word and I’m a native English speaker. So, how
are you going to translate that into Klingon if you can’t really explain it
to me in English?
>
> I really think you might as well try to translate the term “replicator”
in the Star Trek universe into D’nai, a language of a fictional race that
doesn’t have replicators in their universe. Or maybe translate the term
“Holy Grail” to a language that belongs to a culture that has no religion
and no concept of “cup” and doesn’t intake any substance that doesn’t
require chewing. It’s like trying to come up with vocabulary for discussing
the engineering concepts behind support bras that “lift and separate” to a
culture of intelligent fungus who have no concept of engineering and have
no experience with breasts to be lifted or separated, and no idea why
anyone would want them lifted or separated.
>
> Or maybe take on the role of mattress salesman, trying to explain to a
Klingon the advantages of memory foam, ignoring the simple fact that
Klingons prefer to sleep on hard, cold surfaces.
>
> There are so many other things to talk about in the language for which
the language is well equipped. I really think you are starting off in a
direction for which you are poorly equipped, if this language is your tool.
You’d have to be exceptionally well skilled; more skilled than I am, and
I’ve been using this language since qep’a’ wa’DIch.
>
> I suggest that you build your skill in the language taking on less
challenging topics of translation, and then, years from now, once you have
grown strong and confident in your ability to translate simpler things,
perhaps return to your quest to translate religious texts into Klingon.
Otherwise, you will be overly dependent upon the kindness of strangers to
do most of your work for you.
>
> There have been two attempts, to my knowledge, at bible translation into
Klingon. One was slapdash, working from an English version of the bible,
satisfying the author and not really anybody else, and the other, a more
scholarly, academic attempt working from original language texts that was
never finished. It’s hard. VERY hard. It’s not really appropriate for a new
student of the language. Unless you want to create a second slapdash
project that garners very little respect because it is so badly done.
>
> I know this sounds sarcastic. It sounds like an anti-religious rant.
While some of that is true, because I have spent enough years subjected to
disrespect for my own religious beliefs, resolving that by deciding that
this stuff is personal and doesn’t really need public discussion any more
than one’s sex life, at the root of my message here is a truth worthy of
note:
>
> Religion is not an appropriate topic of translation for unskilled
beginners trying to learn the language. So, if you really are trying to
learn the language, you honestly would be better served working on some
other topic until you already have enough skills to answer the questions
you now ask others, because there are no short answers. It is not the case
that someone can answer a few questions, give you some vocabulary, and then
you can go off and translate the stuff you apparently want to translate.
>
> It’s simply not going to work that way. You need another approach.
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Anthony Appleyard <a.appleyard at btinternet.com>
wrote:
>
> I understood that a saint was a Christian who in early times did
something recognized as very holy, not merely "a member of the church, a
fellow believer or follower".
>
> Some saints were the first man who successfully preached Christiuanity in
an area, e.g. St. Patrick in Ireland, or St.David in Wales.
>
> Some saints were martyrs for their faith, e.g. St.Stephen who was stoned
 to death.
>
> ----Original message----
> From : nahqun at gmail.com
> Date : 01/12/2015 - 12:09 (GMTST)
> To : tlhingan-hol at stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> Subject : Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Religious terminology
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 6:32 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've been trying in vain,to find ways to express the following words
> > in Klingon :
> >
> > bless (v)
> > saint (n)
> > sacred,to be sacred
> > holy,to be holy
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas ?
> >
>
> A saint is a member of the church, a fellow believer or follower.
> While I've seen {quvwI'pu'} used here before, and used it myself, you may
want to consider playing around with
> {chuD} people, kin, member of the same group or tribe or clan
> {tuqnIgh} a member of one's house
> {vInDa'} compatriot, community member, cohort, fellow citizen
>
>
>
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--
~Michael Roney, Jr.
Freelance Translator
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