[Tlhingan-hol] Canon surrounding order of pre-OVS elements

[lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh]

Similar to what others have stated earlier, I think it’s fine to say, “As a general rule, adverbs precede Type-5 suffixed nouns, but grammar isn’t math or computer programming. There are exceptions to general rules, and the exceptions often involve levels of subtlety that a new student of the language may learn over time, but should not become overly concerned with in the early stages of learning the language."

It’s like nostrils, scattered all about. You may understand it later, but nobody can explain it to you. There is no short-cut to this part of the learning process.

Or, to reuse the Harley Davidson bumper sticker: “If I have to explain it, you wouldn’t understand."

lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably



On Jun 13, 2014, at 11:25 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:

> This discussion question concerns the relative order of items that precede the OVS structure of a phrase: timestamps, adverbs, and nouns bearing type-5 suffixes.
> 
> TKD 6.1 tells us that the nouns that are neither O nor S precede the OVS.
> TKD 6.7 tells us that the usual order is timestamp then adverb, but suggests elements other than timestamps might precede the adverb.
> 
> reH HIvje’lIjDaq ‘Iwghargh Datu’jaj. shows us that an adverb can precede a noun with a type-5
> tlhIngan Dujmey law’qu’ SommeyDaq batlh cha’lu’. shows that the adverb can follow it.
> HaqwI’’e’ DaH yISam shows that it can follow it, but is rather a special case.
> 
> Do we have any canon showing a noun with a type-5 suffix and a timestamp in the same sentence? Are there any other examples with a type-5 noun suffix and an adverb in the same sentence? (Disregarding neH and jay’). I’m pretty sure we’re not so fortunate as to have an example with all three.
> 
> (If someone whose brain is not wired for memorizing or composing wants to make a lasting contribution to the language, a concordance that made the paq’batlh searchable on such criteria would be worth its weight in gold pressed latinum.)
> 
> Would anyone be uncomfortable with me telling beginners that the information we have suggests that the timestamp should precede the noun with the type 5, but that when it improves clarity, the timestamp might follow, as the adverb does in the complex phrase above about the emblem being emblazoned on hulls?
> 
> My examples – anyone take issue?
> 
> DaHjaj ‘etlhlIjmo’ maQap.
> wanI’vammo’ DaHjaj bInoy.
> 
> - Qov
> 
> 
> 
>  
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