[Tlhingan-hol] Multiple verb suffixes

[Bellerophon, modeler]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:20 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn at flyingstart.ca>wrote:

Having met 'eD and recalling one of his weaknesses,


There are so many!

I suspect that he didn't intentially misorder the suffices, that he wasn't
> actually proposing the suffixes be ordered incorrectly, just trying to
> recall a sentence like



DuHeghrupmoHlaH vs. DuHeghmoHlaH



To my reading -laH acts slightly differently in the two constructions, but
> I won't give my interpretation so I don't bias yours.


I don't think any suffixes were misordered, and certainly no one is
proposing doing so. AFAIK, the closest anyone competent in Klingon (which
excludes me!) has come to this was MO making a portmanteau of -lu' and -laH
in KGT as an example of non-standard usage.

Actually Qov, I'd like to hear your interpretation of the above. I'd read
them both with suffixes acting in their grammatical order: "he can prepare
you to die" vs. "he can cause you to die," with -laH acting the same in
both. (BTW, I'm not sure {HeghmoH} is any different from {HoH}. I wonder if
MO conceived the latter as a contraction of the former). One could
conceivably interpret the former as, "He makes you able to be prepared to
die," but that's pretty awful. Interpreting the latter as, "He causes you
to be able to die" makes no sense unless you were previously immortal.

ghunchu'wI' cited an excellent example below of suffixes that make more
sense if they don't act in their grammatical order.

From: ghunchu'wI' [mailto:qunchuy at alcaco.net]
>
> Power Klingon's suggested formula for declining an offered liaison:
> DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH
> "I must wash my hair now."


Rigidly applying the meaning of the suffixes in order yields "I cause my
hair to need to be clean now," which makes very little sense.

The rules for verb suffixes stated in TKD must give rise to some additional
grammar governing suffixes. They commonly seem to apply in order, though
this often doesn't work with Type 2 suffixes, especially combinations like
-nISmoH and -qangmoH. "Need to cause" and "willing to cause" express clear
meanings, but "cause to need" and "cause to be willing" make little sense
as direct action. What grammatical rules can be stated about the action of
suffixes, in combination with different types of verbs and each other? For
that matter, which combinations are not allowable? Can {-moH} ever be
applied to a transitive verb? It may be impractical to state a system rules
to govern every possible utterance, especially if context plays a role, but
the other extreme of ad hoc interpretation is imprecise.

~'eD
-- 
My modeling blog:          http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog:  http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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