[Tlhingan-hol] "Who are you?"

[Ruben Molina]

[resending to the list]

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 11:04 AM, David Trimboli <david at trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 6/5/2013 11:38 AM, Ruben Molina wrote:
>>
>> There is an interesting discussion about this contradiction between
>> the dictionary and the tape in "{'Iv} and {nuq} as Pronouns" by
>> Captain Krankor.
>>
>> «Remember, categories such as "pronoun," "question word," "adverbial,"
>> and the like are convenient classification added by _terran_
>> scholars.  Klingon grammarians classify _all_ such words as *chuvmey*,
>> "leftovers." So, *jIH*, *SoH*, and *maH* are the same type of words as
>> *'Iv* and *nuq* and it would seem completely reasonable for them to
>> behave similarly.» — "{'Iv} and {nuq} as Pronouns",  "The Grammarian's
>> Desk",  p.24–25.
>
>
> Klingon grammarians classify words one way; Terran grammarians classify them
> another way. Each is just a system of classification; the system may or may
> not reflect actual usage. Here Krankor is clearly oversimplifying. {'ej} is
> also one of the {chuvmey}, but no one expects it to be able to behave as a
> pronoun or an adverbial.
>

Well, it is my fault. I just cut the quote before he talks about that:

« (…) it would seem completely reasonable for them to
behave similarly.  That doesn't mean, of course, that, say, an
adverbial or a conjunction could be used as a pronoun —we can't just
go making things up out of thin air— but given that we now have
supporting evidence, our extension seens fully justified»

AFAICT, that was said before we had any other supporting evidence that
"question words" could in fact act as "pronouns".

> However, there is a point to be made: the Terran grammarians' categories of
> "question word" and "pronoun" are not mutually exclusive. {'Iv} and {nuq}
> are clearly both, as they stand in for nouns and may be used verbally.
> {nuqDaq} may be both as well, given sentences like {nuqDaq puchpa'}, though
> this sort of thing may also be interpreted as clipped speech. {ghorgh} may
> stand in for a noun referring to time, or it may refer to a relative clause
> referring to time. {chay'} and {qatlh} don't seem to stand in for anything
> at all, unless it's a word with {-mo'}.
>

That seems to be the best way to put it: "question word" and "pronoun"
are not mutually exclusive, but we are not sure how they are
intersected.

> The important thing to remember is that the term "pronoun" when referring to
> Klingon infers a certain kind of verbiness, and that certain words that are
> not labeled as pronouns in the dictionary are nonetheless pronouns.
>

Fair enough.

Thanks SuStel
ruben

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> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>
>
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