[Tlhingan-hol] jolly?

[Robyn Stewart]

Digression alert:  English has a habit of turning 
words that have a positive connotation into 
intensifiers that aren't necessarily positive:

"A good distance to fall."
"A fair amount owing."
"A great distance to walk."
"A mighty difficult problem."
"A terrific headache."  (But maybe that one was 
terror-ific before terrific became positive).
"A jolly good fellow." (I never though of it that 
way before, but Felix is probably right).

Is this common in languages?  It's in Klingon, 
where the exclamation qu' is positive, even something could be qabqu'?

- Qov

At 12:28 '?????' 1/8/2013, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
>Does the "jolly" in "jolly good fellow" actually 
>mean "happy"? I've always interpreted it as a 
>jovial intensifier, and looking at some 
>translations into Earth languages, it seems 
>others have simply interpreted "jolly good 
>fellow" as "a really good guy" or "a true 
>friend" ("bravo ragazzo", "muchacho excelente", "buen compañero", etc.).
>So, I might recommend something like {jupna' 
>ghaH[bej]mo' <name>'e'}. Maybe turn "And so say 
>all of us" into {DaHjaj wIquvqu'moH} or something.
>
>Anyhow, it appears Troi and company actually 
>translated that song into some other dialect than the tlhIngan ta' Hol.
>Interestingly enough, the "Klingon" lyrics to 
>this song can be found on Wikipedia: 
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_He%27s_a_Jolly_Good_Fellow#Klingon_version
>
> > I don't have any record of Okrand opining on the question, nor of the form
> > *{Quchqu'} in my notes, though it would seem to fit.
>
>I suspect that while the literal meaning of 
>"jolly" carries over quite well, there might not 
>be a term which simultaneously has similarly 
>jovial connotations. The words {maqoch} and 
>{chaj}, and the expression {wIj jup}, may have 
>similar connotations, but have a different literal meaning.
>
> > Anything in the paq'batlh, guys?
>
>Nope; no uses of the words "happy" or "jolly", 
>and the only uses of {Quch} refer to foreheads.
>________________________________________
>From: Steven Boozer [sboozer at uchicago.edu]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 21:04
>To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org
>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] jolly?
>
>De'vID:
> > I have a recollection of reading somewhere that MO was asked how to
> > translate "jolly good [fellow]", and his replied contained {Quchqu'}
> > and a remark that Troi (in the STTNG episode "Parallels") was wrong to
> > say that Klingon doesn't have a word for "jolly". Was it in an issue
> > of HolQeD? On a mailing list?  Or am I imaging things?
>
>In TNG "Parallels" Troi commented on the 
>difficulties of translating the song "For He's a 
>Jolly Good Fellow" into Klingon that, "There 
>doesn't seem to be a Klingon word for 'jolly'."
>
>I don't have any record of Okrand opining on the 
>question, nor of the form *{Quchqu'} in my notes, though it would seem to fit.
>
>FYI {Quch} "be happy" in canon:
>
>   jIQuch
>   I am happy. KLS
>
>   loD Quch jIHbe'
>   I am not a merry man. TKW
>
>   De'vetlh vIQoy, vaj jIQuch
>   I am happy to hear that information. KGT
>
>AFAIK there are no examples of {QuchHa'} "be unhappy" in canon.
>
>Anything in the paq'batlh, guys?
>
>
>--
>Voragh
>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
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