[Tlhingan-hol] "Never give up; never surrender"

[Felix Malmenbeck]

While paq'batlh is prose and needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, there is this (paq'raD Canto 2, page 101):

loDnI'wI'
bIQeHba'
chaq batlh bIvangqa'laH

My brother, I see your anger,
You might have a chance
To make amends.

...and also, in one stanza, MO uses both a double and a triple adverbial (paq'raD, Canto 8, p. 121):

jatlh 'e' mevDI' qeylIS, lop
chaq tugh batlh Heghmo'
'eu chaq tugh charghmo'

After Kahless's words, they celebrate,
For they may soon die with honor!
For they may soon be victorious!

...and in paq'raD, Canto 17 (p. 151):

jIlay'ta' 'ej batlh jIpabta'
vaj choDanIS
reH batlh SuvtaHjaj chaH

I have kept my word of honor,
And so should you,
Let endless battle and honor await them!

(this is then repeated in paq'QIH, Canto 3, p. 187, but with ghaH instead of chaH)

...and paq'raD, Canto 23 (p. 167):

Hay'chu' luneHqu'
vaj pe'vIl joqqu'
cha' tlhIngan tIqDu'

Both Klingon hearts beat,
At their strongest,
In lust for blood.

________________________________________
From: David Trimboli [david at trimboli.name]
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 22:03
To: tlhingan-hol at stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] "Never give up; never surrender"

TKD 6.7 (Addendum) tells us that adverbials come before the main OVS clause, that other elements precede adverbials, and that elements indicating times come first. I don't think this is meant to be inviolate, however.

While there's no rule that says we can use multiple adverbials, there's no rule that says we can't, either. The jury is still out on that.

On May 28, 2012, at 3:25 PM, "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv" <lojmitti7wi7nuv at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I certainly see this word order as correct, though I had not thought of it as exclusively correct. Perhaps I have missed something. I thought Okrand had been clear that certain things came before the direct object, but wasn't all that clear about a specific priority among things on the list of before-the-object items.
>
> It was hard enough deciphering which dependent clauses could optionally follow the main clause and which ones strictly have to precede it (leading me to favor the safer option of always preceding). Adverbs, Type 5 suffixed nouns, type 9 suffixed verbs... There's a rule to sift out which comes first?
>
> Please remind me. I'm getting senile.
>
> I still wish we could use multiple adverbials.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 28, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Terrence Donnelly <terrence.donnelly at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> --- On Mon, 5/28/12, David Trimboli <david at trimboli.name> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 5/26/2012 10:01 PM, Terrence
>>> Donnelly wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>> How about using {-'e'}? I think we've lost a powerful
>>> tool by not
>>>> understanding its full possibilities as a topic-marker,
>>> {not Qu''e'
>>>> jIjegh, not jagh'e' jIjegh} "As for tasks, never
>>> surrender, as for
>>>> enemies, never surrender.}
>>>
>>> Ha! I'm usually ignored when I suggest using {-'e'} in this
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Per TKD 6.7, I'd probably arrange this as {Qu''e' not
>>> yIjegh; jagh'e'
>>> not yIjegh}. {Qu''e'} and {jagh'e'} are "elements of another
>>> type"
>>> (because they're not the objects of {yIjegh}, and {not}
>>> should go
>>> between them and the verbs.
>>>
>>
>> Really? I had no idea you supported this notion; I always thought I was alone in it.
>>
>> I base my belief on {HaqwI''e' DaH yISam}; "As for the surgeon, find him now!". Of course, you are right about the placement vis-a-vis the adverbs.
>>
>>> --
>>> SuStel
>>> http://www.trimboli.name/
>>
>> -- ter'eS
>>
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>
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