[Tlhingan-hol] Lament (Re: A demonstration of aspect we can all follow)

[Michael Roney, Jr. PKT]

jatlh lojmIt tI'wI'nuv:
>Yes, there is a problem when someone enjoys jumping in and basically saying, "You guys are idiots and you have it all wrong. I >really am the only one who understands how this language works. Let me set you all straight."
>

Honestly, I'm used to newcomers doing this.
I remember this one time where someone wanted us to start using some
sort of slang/TXT system where {*3puH} would be understood.

I've actually enjoyed watching the debate.

>We are unnecessarily nasty to one another. I wish we could evolve past that, and celebrate that we are doing something together, >instead of making it a pissing contest so often.

Especially when the linguists try to join the list.
If there's anything that's been constant since I've joined, it's that
this list doesn't like actual linguists, and toilets are sure to start
a conversation.

I've talked to linguists who've stopped posting because they get
attacked when simply trying to ask a question.

And I find it very interesting that toilets never fail to get everyone talking.

jatlh De'vID
>Maybe a solution to this would be to split up the mailing list, and
>have a beginner's list where posts have to have at least as much
>English as Klingon and discussions about controversial or advanced
>points of grammar are now allowed.

Personally, I'm against this.
What I think we need is a better way to tell newcomers about the KLBC tag.

If I joined the list today, I would have no idea that the KLBC tag
meant it was at my level; or to use it when posting.

We need everyone interacting together; the beginners need to be able
to see the experts conversing and writing epics.
And the experts need to see the newcomers and help them along.


jatlh David Trimboli
>How about the facts that we're using antiquated and buggy software in an outmoded medium, discoverable only on an out-of-date website,
[snip]
>If the world worked the way I want it to, we'd have a news server including kli.klingon, kli.grammar, and kli.support, and sensible posting guidelines.
>
>In the real world, we should have a web-based forum with a section for only-Klingon and a section for grammar, among others. I >suggested such a forum years ago at a qep'a', but the old-fashioned computer-types didn't agree. However, I believe that to attract >the young, you must present yourself in a format they are familiar with, and that's web forums.

Huh.
I guess I'm old fashioned.
I certainly agree that the site itself is in desperate need of an
update; but I most certainly don't like forums.
I use them when I have to; but I much prefer e-mail.

Have you ever tried to load a forum on a phone? Ugh.


jatlh De'vID
>Let me provide some context for this.  A number of people who are
>interested in Klingon have contacted me as a result of my Klingon app
>for the Android phone.  Lots of people have mobile phones nowadays,
>and people who are interested in Klingon search for "Klingon" on their
>phone and find my app.  They ask me where they can find other Klingon
>speakers, I point them at the KLI and this mailing list.
>
>Unfortunately, the KLI web site looks like it's jumped through a
>wormhole and travelled forward in time from 1995.  Seriously. And it
>looks *terrible* on a mobile device like a phone or tablet.  Just
>horrid.  So even before they get to the mailing list, they're already
>turned off by the look of the KLI web site.
>
>society has changed and people have
>changed.  Email is an antiquated technology.  These people who found
>my connection to Klingon through their mobile phones or tablets expect
>to be able to learn Klingon using and through their devices.  They
>want audiovisual (one of the more requested features for my app is
>sound), they want apps, they want Klingon on the go, they want to SMS
>in Klingon, and long email messages just don't fit into their
>worldview.  At least not until they attain a level of skill where they
>can compose long messages themselves.

While I don't have an Android phone; I do agree that being able to
learn/study/practice on my phone is necessary.
One of my most used apps is qurgh's dictionary app.
I even added a flash card set to an app to learn the 500 beginner
words for the Level 1 test.
Some of them even have sound.

For most of the past three years, I've been able to type pIqaD on my
phone (recent software updates have killed my hack...).
But I can still view the text.

Yes, on-the-go is a must.
But I consider e-mail on-the-go and have absolutely no problem with it.


jatlh qurgh
>There is a forum add-on, with an accompanying mobile app, called Tap-A-Talk. It allows a user to easily access a forum through a >mobile device, without having to deal with the web version of the forum. You can also access multiple forums at the same time, >which makes managing multiple different forums much easier.

They don't seem to have a webOS app...

jatlh qurgh
>I have some of the skills, but I don't think the issue is "lack of skill". It's "lack of leadership". Unlike all the other clubs I'm in, the >KLI doesn't have a structured internal organization, it's just one guy doing it all (with a few helpers here and there) which means >change happens very very slowly. Personally I believe the KLI needs to restructure itself into something that more resembles a >real non-profit with real positions that are held by volunteer members who have the skills to handle certain aspects of the group
>(For example: Director is at the top, below them are two teams: an internal team that handles things like the website, mailing >lists, >membership processing, qep'a' planning, etc, and a language team that handles translation requests, editing of KLI works, >creation of new KLI works, KLCP grading, etc). This would shift responsibly for the success of the KLI from just Lawrence's >shoulders, to the shoulders of the membership as a whole.

Well the first step is to get the password to edit the site.
As I understand it, either no one has it; or the person that has it
won't give it up.
Which is why we have an addendum to the New Words List being hosted on qepHom.de

There's been plenty of volunteers to update the site; and maintain
various lists; we just don't have the ability to go in and do it.

I think qurgh has suggested a great idea; sounds like a discussion for
qep'a'; where "everyone" will be able to try and make something
happen.

Wait, did you say "membership processing"?
What exactly does that $10 get me?
Seriously.

"Support the KLI in the most active and effective way possible, and
stay up-to-date on all the very latest developments in Klingon
Language study. Annual membership in the KLI includes discounts on
selected KLI publications and KLI-sponsored events and access to
members-only content on the KLI site."

Am I missing "the very latest developments" somewhere?
Are they not announced on this list?

Discounts on what products?
The only thing the site sells is the Tao Te Ching; and I paid full price.
(and registration to the 2010 qep'a')

Does the KLI sponsor any events?
Is there a special member rate for qep'a'?

Is there anyone to grant/revoke access to the members-only area?
And is there any real reason to access it?
Currently, my expired membership gives me access to two issues of
HolQeD and the KLIpIqaDmey font.
I purchased that font on a diskette a while back.

I honestly don't see what the $10 pays for, or what it gets me.
And don't tell me it's to run the site; it's hosted by our Logical
Language friends.




>>Someone mentioned Qov publishing her book; physically.

Do it.

I'd love to buy a new book.

Other people have written stuff, too.
Let's publish those as well!

I want a physical copy of "deep-fried qagh".
Call it a parody and you shouldn't have any copyright issues.

The existence of on-demand printing means we don't have to have a
large audience for these books.


jatlh Ezri Dax
> I think that the situation with Lawrence is a symptom of a bigger problem. The Klingon Language Institute is dying; and I think it deserves to die.

First, no offense to Lawrence.

But the KLI doesn't seem to be growing.
It doesn't even seem to be active beyond this list and the qep'a'.
Which doesn't seem like much activity.

I've never met Lawrence, I've never been to qep'a'.
In fact, I've only met a handful of y'all in real life.
(Four? One of which is no longer active on this list)

But from what I hear, off-list and on, is that Lawrence is currently
focused on being an author.
And I think that's great.

jatlh 'angghal
>tugh nargh paqwIj chu' 'ej paqmey law' Daje'nIS
>my new book appears soon, and you need to buy many copies.
>
>paqDaq vong Datu' 'ej vay' Sopbogh *tangqa'-targhHom Datu'
>In the book you will find a hypnotist and a "buffalo dog" that can eat anything.
>
>*tangqa'-targhHom 'uQ'a' 'oH paq pong'e'
>The book's title is "Buffalito Buffet"
>
>DuHaghmoH paqvammo' latlhmey Daje'nISba'
>Because this book will make you laugh, you obviously need to buy additional ones.


If people were paying me to do something; it'd probably get more
attention than things I do for free.

I have no problem with Lawrence writing books.

I also hear that the qep'a' plans to follow World Con around the globe
so that Lawrence can tackle both at once.

Sure, I'll go along with that.
I have no problem with it traveling the globe.
I'm sure the non-North Americans on the list will be glad when it
comes their way.

This year it will be 3.5 driving hours from my house.

No complaints.

What I do mind; is that no one else has been appointed to run, or
co-run the KLI.
And that almost a year after taking the Level 1 Certification Test, I
still can't get him to reply with my results.

I also mind that the Worlds of Translation project hasn't been published.
It was announced in March of 2004; scheduled to be published November of 2006.

I have no idea if people even translated their stories.
(I also regret declining an invitation to translate)

There are no new issues of HolQeD, no new books being published, and
no actively sponsored projects to get books published.
And no current BG.
Kor Memorial Scholarship?


Did y'all know that there's an Earth Epics Project?
It's mentioned in my "Welcome to the KLI" letter.

Anyone been asked to translate an epic?


I am eager to contribute to the Extended Corpus Project, but once
again, we can't edit the site.


And I keep wondering if the rumor is true that Macbeth has been translated.


I really like qurgh's suggestion.
Break the KLI down into segments; and assign people to them (accept
volunteers, whatever).
And I'd like to add that a backup system is put in place so that if
someone does vanish; we can continue.

Someone, somewhere, updated/changed this mailing list a few months ago.
They're active enough to update it; but not active enough to fix the
reply-all settings.

That doesn't sit well with me.
I want someone that's able to fix things when they need fixed.
I don't expect anyone to consider the KLI their full time, yet unpaid, job.

But I do expect for people to do handle what they're in charge of.
If they can't do that, then they need to pass the torch to someone who can.

No hard feelings if you need to pass your torch; life happens, things come up.
But please take a few minutes to say "Hey, life is happening, here's
the info you need."



I think that's enough of a rant for one night.
Sorry if I got carried away.

~'anan naHQun


-- 
~Michael Roney, Jr.
Professional Klingon Translator
webOS Developer

http://www.twitter.com/roneyii
http://www.google.com/s2/profiles/110546798564536163288