[Tlhingan-hol] mutually subordinate clauses?

[David Trimboli]

On 6/5/2012 3:57 AM, De'vID jonpIn wrote:
>
> loghaD:
>>>> However, my favorite remains {wIHIvlu'be'chugh mapawbej.}: It's
>>>> short and succinct.
>
> SuStel:
>> I would once again point out that {-pu'} indicates perfective aspect (a
>> completed event in its entirety) rather than perfect tense (doing something
>> prior to the time context). Lack of a Type 7 suffix means the verb is
>> neither completed nor continuous, a propensity to the verb.
>
> But does being neither completed nor continuous necessarily indicate propensity?
>
> {yaS vIlegh} means "I see the officer", not "I generally see the officer".

As I said, propensity, general truth, habit: whatever other descriptions 
might refer to an action that is not something you can point to on a 
timeline.

{yaS vIlegh} does not mean "I see the officer RIGHT NOW." It doesn't 
even mean "I see the officer at a particular time." It can be used to 
mean a lot of other things, though, including "I see the officer 
regularly" {roD yaS vIlegh} or "I see the officer in my dreams" 
{jInajtaHvIS yaS vIlegh} or "whenever I open my eyes I see the officer" 
{reH mInwIj vIpoSmoHDI' yaS vIlegh}.

> SuStel:
>> "The absence of a Type 7 suffix usually means that the action is not completed and not continuous (that is, it is not one of the things indicated by the Type 7 suffixes)." (TKD p. 40)
>
> I think that leaves room for {yaS vIlegh} to mean "I see the officer
> (at the moment, in this instant only)".  It's not {yaS vIleghpu'}
> because the act of my seeing him isn't done yet (he hasn't left the
> room, say), but it's also not {yaS vIleghtaH} because I'm not
> continuously looking at him,  nor {yaS vIleghlI'} because my seeing him
> isn't proceeding towards some expected goal.  He just happens to be
> there, and I see him.

It means you see him on and off, as you pass your gaze by him. This is 
an instance of "regularly" or "habitually." I'm sorry I don't have a 
good word to cover every possible meaning of non-aspect sentences. In 
this context, {yaS vIlegh} does indeed mean exactly what you want. As I 
pointed out, the English translation "I see the officer" can have many 
interpretations depending on context, because English mixes tense and 
aspect inseparably.

> Or do you think this sentence was simplified for pedagogical purposes
> and doesn't mean what the translation says it means?

Not at all. I just think the translation can be made to mean many 
things, depending on the context in which it is said.


-- 
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/