[Tlhingan-hol] Marc on Aspect

[Steven Boozer]

Qov:
>>> I'll just note that we now appear to know that Klingons use the
>>> American-style 'group is singular.' <'oH mutlh QI>, and not <'oH
>>> lumutlh>. cf "BP regret ..." vs. "Microsoft is ..."

Voragh:
>>We've seen examples of the "American-style" before:
>>
>>  vangDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' ngoy' qorDu'Daj ...
>>  The family of a Klingon warrior is responsible
>>  for his actions ... TKW
>>
>>   not *{lungoy'}

ghunchu'wI':
> That's not an example. Adding some punctuation to clarify:
> 
>   vangDI' tlhIngan SuvwI', ngoy' qorDu'Daj.
> 
> {ngoy'} is not using an object (and its definition "be responsible"
> doesn't make it clear that it uses any).

va!  bIlughchu'.  I was searching the examples of {qorDu'}, {yejquv}, etc. for examples of transitive verbs and mis-read this as:

  *vangDI' tlhIngan, SuvwI' ngoy' qorDu'Daj (!)

which is of course gibberish.  {ngoy} is a quality and cannot take an object, at least not without adding {-moH}.

> My only immediate question is something not prompted by this
> answer. I have long wondered exactly what it means to put a
> perfective suffix on a verb representing a state or quality.
> For example, does {tujpu'} carry an implication that it is
> no longer hot?

The only example of {tuj} with a Type 7 suffix is:

  ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ 
  When will the water be hot? TKD

which uses an intervening {-choH}.  We have two other examples of {tujchoH}, but without aspectual suffixes:

  tujqu'choH QuQ 
  The engine is overheating. TKD

  tujqu'choHmo' QeHchaj nagh tetlaH tujvam 
  Their anger so hot, It could melt the rock (PB 76-77)

Outside of poetry, I'm not sure that you can use perfective suffixes on bare qualities, only action verbs.  E.g. (emphasis added):

  "[{-pu'}] indicates that an *action* is completed." (TKD 41)

  "[{-ta'}] is similar to {-pu'}, but it is used when an
   *activity* was deliberately undertaken, the implication
   being that someone set out to do something and in fact
   did it." (TKD 41)

Can you think of anyplace Okrand used a quality with a perfective suffix?  (I can't... but it's mid-afternoon and I need another cup of coffee to wake up. <g>)


--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons