[Tlhingan-hol] nu'uchtaH San ghop

[Robyn Stewart]

At 12:32 '?????' 4/27/2012, you wrote:
>Qov:
> > Canon {cha'maH vagh vatlhvI' Hong} puts the percent before not after. Do we
> > have other contradictory canon or did you feel the odd structure of a
> > law'/puS wanted it afterwards?
>
>pab vIlIj neH.

maj. maghoH vIneHbe'


>Qov:
> > I swear the very first thing I managed to get out of it was "his army was
> > just as gay as his enemy's".
>
>Err.... vIghel 'e' vISuD'a'?

porgh Seghchaj rap lungagh 'e' lumaS wa'maH vatlhvI' roghvaH net 
jatlh. vaj wa'maH vatlhvI' ghol mangghom rurchugh N. mangghom ....


>De'vID:
> >> HIv 'e' wuq.  Qapbej 'e' Sovchu',
>
>Qov:
> > You mean {Qapbej} or {QaplaHbej}?  The first sounds so strong it might be a
> > premonition.
>
>The English says he knew he would win, not that he could win, so {Qapbej}.

SIbI'Ha' 'e' vIlaD.

>De'vID:
> >>  'elHa' 'ej DarSeq ronmoH.  nargh nach.  neghDaj pIlqu'moHlu'mo',
>
>Qov:
> > I would not have used {-lu'} here, because the agent of their inspiration
> > was clearly either Nobunaga or the coin, both which would be third person
> > singular.
>
>It was one or the other, but left unspecified.

One or the other, left unspecified would be just as clear, but more 
simply done with {negh pIlqu'moHpu'mo'}.

>De'vID:
> >> <quSDaq bIba',> jatlh {Nobunaga}.  DarSeq 'ang.  ngIq DopDaq nach tu'lu'.
>
>Qov:
> > vIloypu'!
>
>:-)
>
>De'vID:
> >> A great Japanese warrior named Nobunaga decided to attack the enemy
> >> although he had only one-tenth the number of men the opposition
> >> commanded.
>
>Qov:
> > Ah, so you broke it into plenty of sentences. Keep that around ot show next
> > time a beginner tries to translate a whole sentence of English as one
> > sentence of Klingon. It's a very fine example of why not to.
>
>Oh, yeah, no way I was going to do that paragraph as one sentence.

You'd be surprised what people will try.

>De'vID:
> >> On the way he stopped at a Shinto shrine and told his men:
>
>Qov:
> > I found it a little interesting that you in narration used a different word
> > for the lat/chIrgh than he did in dialogue. Was that intentional? I don't
> > see the purpose.
>
>Yes, it was intentional.  I figured the {lat} is the thing inside a
>{chIrgh}.  He was already at the {chIrgh}, so saying {chIrgh vISuch}
>sounded a bit strange.  I mean, in English, when you're outside the
>shrine (building), saying "I'm going inside to visit the shrine
>(altar)" isn't that weird.  But for some reason, standing outside a
>{chIrgh} then saying {chIrgh vISuch} sounded a bit off to me.

toH, I though the whole thing was the shrine. Thanks for explaning.

>De'vID:
> >> Nobunaga entered the shrine and offered a silent prayer.
>
>Qov:
> > I so didn't get this from your translation. Is it canon I'm missing?  I
> > understood that he was softly cursing, to insult or challenge fate.
>
>No, no canon.  I just didn't know what the Klingon understanding of
>"silent prayer" might be.  We know Klingons meditate as well as pray,
>but we don't have those words.  I figured someone with a better
>knowledge of Klingon culture would correct me here.

nuvvetlh wIloS maH.

>Qov:
> > I know
> > you don't want to go to {QunvaD qoy'} and I'm not sure whether 
> the prayer in
> > this case would be {no' quvmoH} or {Qun quvmoH}. If you know, that might be
> > the closest. If you don't {lat quvmoHmeH tamtaHvIS jatlh} would 
> seem to come
> > a lot closer to "silent prayer" than curses.
>
>Nobunaga is not petitioning a god(dess), or ancestors, or anything
>personified when he offers his silent prayer.  It's more like a wish.
>I don't think he's {quvmoH}ing anything, though I suppose that's
>better than {qoy'} or {tlhob} or whatever.  (Actually, he's a bit of a
>skeptic in the story, and is doing the prayer just for show anyway.)

If it's a silent prayer for show then what does he actually do? 
qaStaHvIS lup tor/joD/mInDu' SoQmoH/loS?  The English *says* he's 
praying, and the "for show" is your interpretation, so I think you'd 
be fine with the Klingon saying he was honouring ... whatever a 
contemporary shrine would be dedicated to, or even San quvmoH.