[Tlhingan-hol] Suto'vo'qor lojmIt

[Qov]

At 22:58 '?????' 4/26/2012, you wrote:
>De'vID:
> >> {Hakuin} ghoS SuvwI'.  SuvwI'vaD {Nobushige} ponglu'.
>
>Qov:
> > I don't think the braces are necessary for recognizing names, btw. I find
> > them a little weird, especially after the first time.
>
>On previous occasions when non-Klingon words were used in primarily
>Klingon text without marking them, people have been chided.

You'll always get chided for something on this group.  What I do find 
irritating is when someone transliterates a foreign name into Klingon 
with no explanation or marking. It's probably very individual. I find 
the braces quite strong, and they become distracting, which is why I 
mentioned it.

>The
>brackets are probably unnecessary as none of the names in my
>translations coincide with Klingon orthography, but OTOH maybe not
>marking them confuses beginners who are not yet familiar with what
>"looks" Klingon and what doesn't.

For me it would be sufficient to footnote it the first time, but 
maybe it's driving my readers crazy that I have a character named 
ngaH. I have to admit that the guy named Qugh bugs me a bit. I guess 
for someone who has to look up words as they read, it may be nice to 
have avery tangible symbol that they don't have to look this one up.

>De'vID:
> >> 'e' chaw'bogh ra'wI'
>
>Qov:
> > Remember that the reader has to wonder who ghaH represents all the way
> > through two verbs, and consider putting the antecedent earlier.
>
>I often have trouble with sentences of the form "So-and-so blah blah
>blah blah blah to him", where "him" is a reference to "So-and-so".

It gets really bad if you're translating to yourself or someone else 
as you write, because you insert all the "he, him, its" variations 
and it makes it sound much clearer than it is, even after taking the 
sentence order reversal into account. And by that I meant if you're 
composing in Klingon. When you're translating from English to Klingon 
that problem is unavoidable, because the pronouns are already there.

>  I guess Klingon is less picky about preferring a pronoun over repeating
>the noun,

Definitely. Repetition for clarity is A-okay in Klingon.

>e.g., <'avwI' DagheStaHvIS che'wI' DaQan 'e' chaw'bogh
>che'wI' yIngu'!>
>
>De'vID:
> >> yIngu'!  Huch Hutlhbogh qorwI' qab'e' rur qablIj!>
>
>Qov:
> > A familiar Klingon insult mght work better here than the understandable but
> > longwinded Klingon version of "you look like a hobo."
>
>I'd thought about using {Dejpu'bogh Hov rur qablIj} here.  But then I
>thought it strayed too much from the original.  I wish I had a shorter
>word or phrase that had the same connotations as "beggar", "vagabond",
>etc., to use here.

It was perfectly clear, just had to be parsed and interpreted, 
whereas a traditional insult could be recognized. I understand your choice.

>De'vID:
> >> "You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What kind of ruler would have you
> >> as his guard? Your face looks like that of a beggar."
>
>Qov:
> > Ah now I see where this came from. I would evade the "have you as his" and
> > go more verbal, something like: {che'wI' Da'av 'e' chaw' 'Iv?} or
> > {'avwI'DajvaD Dulajqangbogh che'wI' yIngu'}. That speech is the one that
> > needs work.
>
>Oh, {laj} is better than {chaw'}.  I'll go with the second suggestion.

You could stray a little further from the "what kind of ruler" too. 
Because of course he's not asking for the identity of the ruler, just 
insulting the guy's honour by questioning his competence. Don't you 
wish you knew the original language so you knew what liberties the 
English had taken?

- Qov

- Qov