[Tlhingan-hol] 2 letter language code for Klingon?

[lojmIt tI'wI'nuv]

Throughout the existence of the language, we've always had to deal with multiple levels of reality. There's the Star Trek reality that things written in Klingon in movies and on the TV shows never make sense to anyone anyhow, and this is the root of Okrand's earlier suggestion that we don't know anything about the Klingon writing system. Behind that reality is the 20th and 21st century reality that the artistic director of these movies and TV shows has wanted the artistic freedom to write whatever he wants on his sets and computer displays without having to consult with some linguist to make the writing make any sense. Okuda demanded that Okrand never claim to know anything about the Klingon writing system.

Okrand came up with the romanized alphabet simply because if he didn't, then he couldn't very effectively write a dictionary for Klingon. Being romanized makes it convenient for us to use on this email list.

Meanwhile, he didn't just come up with a way to spell phonetic Klingon. He came up with triglyphs and diglyphs for some of the characters. So, when some remarkable fans came up with their own pIqaD, Okrand could never accept it because Okuda demanded that it, on principle, be rejected.

Those were the old days. It wasn't this way because not having a real pIqaD benefitted the fictional world of Klingons. It happened because it benefitted Okuda.

So, maybe Okuda doesn't care so much these days. Or maybe his word doesn't carry as much clout with Okrand as it once did. Or maybe the TalkNow! people just slipped this one in without mentioning it to Okrand and he didn't bother to notice it.

In any case, they paid Okrand to help them out on this, and in return he has declared that the product is now canon, and the product contains pIqaD used as an alphabet. Until Okrand makes a public statement that, oops, that isn't really written Klingon, then it really is canon.

I don't think it hurts the language. I don't think it hurts the fictional culture. It doesn't help us write stuff on this mailing list yet. It doesn't really do much but just give us one more thing to play with -- a thing many of us have already been playing with for years.

I won't be greatly upset if Okrand does come out and declare that pIqaD as shown in TalkNow! is not canon. It won't make a huge difference. I don't see why it should be upsetting to anyone if it actually is canon. Change happens. The geeks among us can become even geekier by becoming fluent at reading and writing pIqaD. We can climb even LOWER on the geek ladder. Nobody gets hurt. It's just stuff to do.

pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv



On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:48 PM, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 5:21 PM, David Trimboli <david at trimboli.name> wrote:
>> From: ghunchu'wI' 'utlh [mailto:qunchuy at alcaco.net]
>>> 
>>> If someone wants to point out that students of typography call the "tlh"
>>> letter a trigraph because it is composed by abutting three otherwise separate
>>> symbols, fine. But Mr. Everson's comment was more than a little patronizing.
>> 
>> If *that* was the point of your response to him, maybe it should have been sent off-list.
> 
> It initially WAS sent off-list. Only after my message was rejected by
> evertype.com did I direct it here. It occurs to me that my messages
> through the list might similarly be getting rejected, so I probably
> should have just kept quiet and avoided setting off this particular
> explosion of conflicting opinions.
> 
>> Suppose someone is writing something that they want to say is actually from a Klingon visiting Earth. Are these phrases known to him? Or are they just best guesses as to what he knows?
> 
> Since you repeated the phrase "words Klingons would use", I know you
> have read it. Much of what you say would make sense to me if you
> thought it said "words Klingons might use", but it says "would". Don't
> you think that means a Klingon visiting Earth WOULD use those words?
> 
>> Since this whole language is about pretending that Klingons exist and understanding how and why they say things, you *must* address these questions.
> 
> That is a viewpoint I do not share. For me, the language is about the
> exercise of using an invented vocabulary and grammar to do everything
> a natural language can do, and about sharing that exercise with other
> people. I won't deny that the occasional bit of reference to a
> fictional culture can be fun, but I can't base my enjoyment of the
> language on trying to get into an alien mindset.
> 
>> The day Okrand abandons the fiction of having Klingon sources is the day I quit.
> 
> bIbupchugh jatlhwI' po'qu' wIghajHa' 'e' vIpaybej.
> 
>> To reiterate: we need to know who *wrote* the pIqaDqoq in EuroTalk, whether Okrand vetted it, and exactly what the fictional context of the program is.
> 
> Does the answer from qe'San satisfy you, or are you still worried that
> the CD-ROM might not be presenting itself with what you believe are
> the appropriate fantasy trappings?
> 
> -- ghunchu'wI'
> 
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