[Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Shopping

[Robyn Stewart]

At 00:25 08/11/2011, Philip Newton wrote:
>On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 20:48, Qov <robyn at flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> >> scissors - cha''etlh pe'wI'
> >
> > I didn't guess this one but should have.
>
>pe'wI' is pretty clear - something that cuts.
>
>But what is cha''etlh? Is it a new word? If so, what does it mean?
>
>cha' 'etlh are two blades... is there a space missing? Is {cha''etlh}
>{cha' 'etlh}, just smooshed together? Or something else?

I can't imagine it being any more than cha' + 'etlh. It's notable for 
being a number-noun and not a noun-noun, but other than that 
"two-blade cutter" is too obvious to be avoided.

> >> umbrella - SIS yoD
> >
> > guessed it!
>
>Does this mean that we now have canon confirmation of a noun {SIS} "rain"?

Probably more canon confirmation of the fact that people don't always 
think in Klingon when they're combining words.  I'm happy with it 
being an "it's raining shield".

>As far as I knew, we had a verb {SIS} "to rain", but no noun.
>
>But if this were a verb, then an umbrella (umbreally? wtf, fingers?)
>would be a "the shield rains", which seems... unlikely. (Can the verb
>{SIS} even take an overt subject in Klingon? It can't really in
>English - *"the cloud rains" or *"the sky rains" seems off to me.)

It's not acting as a regular verb. Maybe it's a shortened form of 
SIStaHvIS yoD.  Maybe the noun SIS persists only in this ancient 
construction and can't be used elsewhere.

>{SIS yoD} makes most sense to me as a noun-noun construction: "rain
>shield". But that presupposes a noun {SIS}.
>
>Meanwhile, what about {peD}? That's also only a verb, as far as I
>know. I wonder whether we'd be justified in guessing a noun {peD}
>"snow".

There's a little round bullseye in Klingon that consists of only 
those parts of the language that we know to be excruciatingly 
correct. Using only language that hits that target requires you to 
avoid using some words at all, because we don't have canon to confirm 
their usage, or because canon is ambiguous.  The next circle out uses 
verbs not seen in canon that could be wrong, but could be right. 
Things like Mr. Klingon autotranslation. falls slightly off the 
target but still hits the block it's mounted on. My goal as a 
Klingonist is to know where the centre ring is, and be able to hit it 
when aiming carefully, to get most of my shots in the next ring out. 
I raise some eyebrows because I like to take difficult shots and 
aren't too unhappy when a few end up scattered further. It is also my 
goal to understand Klingon as far out as possible.

Postulating a noun peD based on a construction that would be easier 
to interpret in the presence of a noun SIS is further out on the 
target than I would give you any points for.

>Or if the snow falls as hard balls of ice, I suppose that
>would be {rI'} :D

And that, as you know is off the paper.

> >> towel - QaDmoHwI' DIr
> >
> > I have just called it a QaDmoHwI'
>
>I wonder why it's not {QaDmoHmeH DIr}? I would have expected a -meH in
>that sort of construction.

Perhaps the construction is more specifying the sort of QaDmoHwI' 
than the sort of DIr.